Yvonne Heimann [00:00:00]
Think about the last time something went sideways in your business. Maybe it was an email with the wrong link. Maybe it was a client deliverable you knew wasn't quite right the second you hit send. And you sat there staring at the screen, waiting for somebody to call you out, and nobody did. Nobody even noticed. You still replayed it in your head all night long. Guilty of that one.
The woman I'm talking to today runs four food businesses in Portland, Oregon. Her team makes thousands of yummy things by hand, fresh, every single day. And she told me something I haven't stopped thinking about. If a customer doesn't see the mistake, that's a win, isn't it? So let me ask you something. Where do you feel it when you mess up? Maybe your chest gets tight, maybe your face gets hot before anyone else even knows something went wrong. Yeah, that's fear of failure, right? We all experience this. And it's making way more of your decision than you realize. It just blows everything out of proportion. What if that mistake was simply just information? You catch it, you fix it, and nobody else ever has to see it.
Yvonne Heimann [00:01:22]
If you're new here and you are a woman in business, welcome. This is She Is A Leader, the podcast where I sit down with female entrepreneurs to talk about the stuff they might not put on LinkedIn. I'm Yvi. I learned the hard way how faster business falls apart when everything lives on one person's heads. That's why I spend years helping founders build systems that keep their business running, even on the days they're not there. And that's exactly why today's stories grabbed me. Today I'm talking with Mindy Crosato. If you live anywhere near Portland, you've probably already eaten her baking. She won Food Networks Chopped back in season 23. She runs Decadent Creations Bakery, Collective Market, and Notorious B.I. There's the German spelling again B.A.G.E.L and I love the name, even though I butchered it with Yvi's tongue twisters always show up. And between all of them, your team feeds thousands of people a day. Oh and she's writing a cookbook right now, just because why would we let life go boring and still? Welcome to the show, Mindy. And I'm so excited because when I saw your bio, when I saw all the things you're doing, I'm like, number one.
Hospitality is not easy, right? There's always something that burns or goes up in flames, or it just doesn't turn out how it's supposed to. And I love your take on if customers don't see it, it's a win. So how do you handle that behind the scenes, right? Because I'm like, same, cool, I fucked this up. Yes, the client didn't catch it. And then I'm still beating myself up for 24 hours.
At a minimum, sometimes weeks. So I would love to hear your take, your perception on, you know what, it doesn't really matter. It's a data piece when it happens as long as the client is happy. How how do you work through all of this? Because I think we are all kind of like sometimes non-recovering perfectionists.
Mindy Crosato [00:03:37]
Thank you. That wonderful intro. yeah, I think it's just there is a conditioning. There is an emotional conditioning because yes, we all have that emotional reaction in our body when we're like, my God, something is wrong. And and so we really have to let let the logic, you know, soothe the emotional part of us. Like, for example, just last week, I got my very first counterfeit $100 bill coming through the farmers market. I have been doing farmers markets for sixteen and a half years, and I have never had a counterfeit bill all these years. And my husband is like, you should make the staff have the little pens and they should be like drawing the little line on people's money. And for years I was like, it's not a problem. It's never happened.
I think it's an awkward customer service moment. It slows down things at the register when you pull out the pen and then you don't have the pen. And the pen dried up. And I really thought, I haven't observed this to be a problem. So we're not even gonna think about it. And it happened for the first time. And I was like, wow. You know, it obviously sucks to have lost that money, you know, because the person probably bought $10 worth of pastries and got $90 of cash back. It I realized it was one of my youngest girls, a young teenage girl working a farmer's market booth by herself. And I was like, okay, there's some vulnerability there. But really, when you think about it, 16 years and having the cost be $90. You know, I pay so much money for so many things. So I got a little $90 lesson. And my takeaway wasn't even necessarily that counterfeit money is a huge problem. Obviously, people are doing their scams like electronically online for the most part these days. But my takeaway was, yeah, these young girls at the market by themselves, like that's a vulnerable piece that I need to pay attention to, that I need to make sure that those young girls have some backup.
Yvonne Heimann [00:06:00]
And it's interesting because my brain went to when you mention it's the first counterfeit bill within years and years.
Because you also looked at that data point of it's an awkward moment, right? We all know why it's happening. It's okay, but it's still an awkward moment of checking the $100 bill. Now, you didn't have these awkward moments for how many years? And it is one counterfeit bill. So how much is it worth considering that it's it can turn around, right? Suddenly it could be five counterfeit bills, ten, and it adds up.
But right now it's at a point where it's like, you know what? It's a nicer customer experience. The hundred bucks or the ninety bucks that you lost sucks, don't give me wrong. And also, it's been smooth for ages. Let's pay attention to it. But is it really a downturn? That's where my brain also interestingly went right away. However, farmers market, right? We know, we never know what's coming in the future. So much cash is happening there. And some people out there just suck. So I love how how you bring that up and just how you look at things, right?
Mindy Crosato [00:07:24]
Yeah, don't let the emotion, don't let the emotion lead you away from the true logic, that this isn't a true problem that is just rampant, that is just happening. You know, because your staff only have so much capacity to focus on things. You know, if I make the staff feel like they need to be suspicious of customers, that is getting away from what I really want them to do, which is strike up a conversation, say hi, invite them to follow us, invite them to come to our shop. So yeah, there's a mixed messaging happening.
Yvonne Heimann [00:07:57]
Now, I'm curious because this is a situation where, okay, by the end of the day, we realize we have a counterfeit. There is not a lot of time pressure. However, I know hospitality and kitchen in general is a whole nother time pressure. So how do you how do you manage mistakes when it comes to a fast-paced environment like in your kitchen?
Don't give me wrong. It's like I know at least how to cook and not boil water. And having been in hospitality a long time too, it's like often it happens. We got our opening, and five minutes before, and something comes out of the oven that didn't turn out how it's supposed to turn out, or things are just so much more fast-paced. How do you keep your wits about yourself when mistakes happen? We're all just humans, right? When mistakes happen in the kitchen or in in a fast paced environment where it's like, God, now we have a timeline behind this and we need to do something. And you you emotions do come up, right? The person that might have made the mistakes, like, my God, how the hell did I did that do that? Why did that happen? And they feel bad about it. And we still need to take care of clients and so much is happening all at the same time. How do you how do you act and and manage the situation
When that kind of mistakes with the time pressure come up.
Mindy Crosato [00:09:22]
One of our sayings in the kitchen, I think someday I'm gonna like get a giant mural of it and artistically plaster it on the kitchen wall, because I say it all the time, is we just say no turning back. Like we literally don't have a time machine. We can't go back and not burn that tray of cookies or whatever happened. We do, I mean, we systematically try to build instructures to safeguard for our mistakes, like in the way that we do our preparation up of our food, obviously we prep things. You know, we have a freezer full of raw cookie dough balls. We have a fridge that's full of raw cake batter. So even though every morning we're baking the cupcakes and baking the cookies, if that tray of cookies burnt, there is a whole nother rack of cookie dough on deck that can go into the oven and be baked. So yeah it is a lot to be like baking that much that is going to be served that day and I I feel like I've seen everything, like I've seen every combination of mistakes. I actually get really excited if I see a mistake that I've never seen before. I'm like, a new one.
Yvonne Heimann [00:10:30]
Like, yes, it's a challenge again. We don't already have a backup for this one. You you're just you're just my kind of weird, where it's like, yeah, challenge accepted, bring it on.
Mindy Crosato [00:10:43]
My god, this this one time. So also with my recipes, like we make everything homemade, and I created these recipes and I know them like the back of my hand. I can like just walk into a room and look across the room and I'm like, you forgot the sugar. Like I can just tell by the way, because I've seen every iteration of mistake. But one time somebody was making angel food cake. And I don't know if you've ever made that before, but it's an egg white meringue. And then you fold the flour into the egg white meringue, and it's like fluffy and wonderful. But they accidentally whooped the egg whites with the flour instead of the sugar and then folded in the sugar. And they did it and they put it in the pans and then they realized what they did. And they came to me and they were like, god, Mindy, I just realized that I folded the sugar in instead of the flour in. What do I do now? And I was like, my god, this is a new one. Like I literally don't know what's gonna happen. And I was like, Well, you already did it, no turning back. I was like, let's just put them in the oven and see what happens.
And they literally exploded. Like the batter, like exploded out of the pans and splat onto every surface of so it was a huge mess. We had to like scrape. it was horrendous. But I did get to learn why it was the because gluten forms little chains from kinetic energy, and all the whipping of the meringue with the flour in there, which is not the way it's supposed to be had formed so much gluten chains and then when you put it in the oven and egg white puffs, it just puffed out of control. And so now I know.
Yvonne Heimann [00:12:22]
I love these testing moments, right? Where it's like, yeah, okay, let's just see what happens. Now we know why too.
Mindy Crosato [00:12:29]
Yeah, but I do I do get that that very that knife in the stomach feeling, which I think everyone has. But I think the more that you just don't run away from that, like I I think that's what most people do. Most people have that knife in the stomach feeling, like, dear God, and you count how much money you lost or how much time you lost, or how now that you have to clean the inside of your oven, or whatever the hardship is because of the fail. But the more that you just face it and just swallow it. The the knife actually becomes less and less and you become more conditioned to handle it. And and it's to me now it's just like, God, okay. And then my brain just goes right into what are we gonna do? And I I can just logically put this into my cost of doing business. It's just like once in a while this things like this happen and I can't emotionally skew it to being a higher value than it actually is logically.
Yvonne Heimann [00:13:27]
I think and it I love that you already went into my next question because a lot of us still have a lot of emotions behind it, right? Even me as German, it's like I I took the j the the Germans don't have emotions wall down and went all the way in my emotions. Now I'm suddenly finally balancing emotions and logic out. And there is we are not wanting to take anything away from the motion the emotions we experience when something goes wrong, right? Whatever your past story is, whatever your world view is, those emotions are valid. Those physical reactions are valid. one thing I often fall back to is that anxiety and excitement feel the same way in our body. We just simply give it a different meaning. The physical reaction is the exact same one. So once my brain clicks on this one, that's helping me. What are some other things that you have in your tool belt that allow you, you or even helping your team to be like, hey, yes, big emotions are valid, completely understand. And also, nothing happened. Nothing really happened. This is fixable. We just move forward.
It's we're just reacting to it. We'll fix it. It's not a problem. How what are some of the tools? What are some of the ways that you have turning those potential big emotions into, hey, it's okay.
Mindy Crosato [00:14:55]
Think the for this one, I becoming a mom. I have two daughters that are now eight and ten. Becoming a mom helped me so much become a better like leader and mentor for my staff. Because when you're a mom, you get to see the completely unvarnished, unfiltered, very childlike emotion. just completely unbridled. And it helps remind me that we all have that. Even though we've we've grown up and we've polished ourselves and we've learned things and we know how to cope now, it's still the same. Obviously, we, you know, maybe now as adults we don't throw ourselves on the floor and have a tantrum, but that feeling is the same. And I mean, no judge.
Yvonne Heimann [00:15:45]
I actually do at times where it's like sometimes emotions just go so crazy for me that I literally feel like that five-year-old wanting to throw a tamper tantrum. And at some point, I just do still feel totally weird and dumb about screaming into a pillow or throwing a tamper tantrum. But my god, moving that energy once I get past my own ego and just do it feels so good. So yeah, I do.
Mindy Crosato [00:16:13]
Yeah, sometimes you do you have to get it out of your body. I think the worst thing you can do in that moment when you feel that knife in the stomach is to stay still. Like I think it's so important to move your body because your body will help you process that no matter what the movement is. You know, whether it's going for a walk or going and taking a shower or going literally any physical movement, I think, will help move that through for you in whatever manifestation that hap is for you. And acknowledging, acknowledging the emotion, not trying to yeah, don't not trying to turn away from it or ignore it or explain it away or say that it's dumb or that it's not okay, judge the emotion. I think that's mostly what I do with my staff is that I just like see them and acknowledge them and let them know that that happens to me too and that it's okay and that you know I hug people sometimes when that's the what they need. Sometimes I feel like the the just the magic fairy just going around like, what do you need? What do you need? And different personalities need different things. But everyone just needs to know that I see you and I know that you're trying and this is normal and this happens sometimes. No turning back. Just what are we gonna do next time to help make sure that that doesn't happen again.
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:38]
I love that. Now, your customers, we talked a lot about back of the house. Your customers, front of the house. I expecting probably not all of them, but many in service-based businesses like we do in hospitality. There there seems to be this customers expecting perfection every single time. And this is what I'm used to, and this is what I'm supposed to be getting. And let's just say social media hasn't made that life much easier when anybody just Yeah, we're not going down the batching road, people. We're I'm I'm staying positive today. Let's just say social media doesn't always help everybody's case. Now, where do you see that that standard of perfection and and the expectation of the expectation of things just being always the same and perfect?
Where do you think that's coming from? And do you slash how much do you buy into this? Customer's king, everything has to be perfect. And kind of like just that picture that I seem to be experiencing lately on poor hospitality on social media. How do you how do you manage those expectations? How do you take care of your team when you do have somebody that might expect too much?
Mindy Crosato [00:19:00]
I mean the way that I approach and the way that I train the staff is, you know, that we need to display that we care. That is the most important thing. that, you know, when someone walks in the room, we acknowledge them. We look say hi, welcome in. I I don't like to give the staff a script. I I like them to say something that's genuine to you. You know, what's up? Hey, girl. You know, like whatever it is for you, but some form of acknowledgement where we never want anyone to walk in the room and feel nobody noticed, nobody cared. I could just walk out the door and nobody cares that I'm even here. And then I, you know, there's the approach. People come in and they walk toward the pastries. We have this huge display of beautiful pastries in the bakery, and they're always, they're always very like, my God, look at all this. Some people are on a mission. Some people are like, I know exactly what I want. I'm on my lunch break. I want that chocolate chip cookie. You know, give it to me and I'm gone. And then some people are like, just want to look. We call those the looky lures. They just want to look, you know, and then it's my I teach my staff to kind of read their energy of like, are they one of those lunch break people or are they a looky looky lure person? But once they're there, your body language is turned toward them like they are your person. They are someone that came into your house and they're your the guest at your dinner party, even though you don't know them. They're a friend of a friend who heard about us somehow. And that we do this we call it man to man deep like as opposed to zone defense. I don't know if you notice there's some places where you walk in and like someone else like grabs your pastries and then someone else rings you up. We don't do that. We stay with the person the whole time. And so I get all of your things and then I ring you up. And then the tickets print for your coffee or your sandwich. And then those come out a little bit later, obviously. But and the whole goal is to break the ice. Like, how can I get past these basic customer service things where it's like, Hi, how are you? Fine.
Like just a waste of words basically. Like how can I
Yvonne Heimann [00:21:18]
You, I love you for that example. Coming from Germany, that was one of my biggest issues checking out groceries. I get where this is coming from. I know it's just being nice. And I'm like, don't fucking ask me how I'm doing if you don't want to hear it.
Mindy Crosato [00:21:38]
Right, right. And then if you answer truthfully, if you're like, actually I'm having a horrible day, this happened and then they're like deer in the headlights, like, my god, she actually answered.
Yvonne Heimann [00:21:50]
Oh my god, the moments I had with just this thing that we do here in the States with like, hey, how are you? Like at this point, I'm playing it off just in an everyday store where I don't know the people, right? But yeah, it's a it's a common joke between me and my friends where I'm like, don't ask me how I'm doing if you don't want to hear the ends.
Mindy Crosato [00:22:11]
I know. I always say the same thing and on the first day of a front of the house person's training. I'm always like, don't say how are you unless you actually know them or recognize them. I'll say how are you when I know someone, when I'm like, hey, how are you? Like, I haven't seen you in a minute. How's your kid? How's your daughter? You know, like I actually want to know. As opposed to when I'm meeting someone for the first time, I'll usually say, you know.
My gosh, that's you know, that's a cute purse, or it's a cute top, or are you in the neighborhood? Do you you know what do you got going on today? You know, I say these more the icebreaker. We try to break the ice. And the trick is if you build the relationships, then your customers will be so much better for for you. That's what I tell the staff. I'm like, they will be so much kinder for you if you have an exist existing rapport and relationship that you can.
They can come to you and be like, this is a little bit too crispy for me. And you could be like, my gosh, let me get you another one, or let me and my staff have full authority to give away free food. Like, please, if a problem can be fixed with a cookie, do it. Just get, you know, you notice somebody's waited a little extra too long for their coffee, just give them a cookie. Don't even ask, do you want a cookie? Because you waited too long. That's awkward. Just throw the cookie on top of their coffee and be like, That's a little something from me. You know, thank you for waiting so patient.
Yvonne Heimann [00:23:38]
Love that, and especially the thought behind it, right? Because you now you are going also into a lot of perception and emotions. Because if somebody asks me, would you like a car, would you like a cookie because you waited for your coffee? I'm like, now I'm taking something from you, and I feel like I have to say no because I'm not supposed to just receive, right? There are so many limiting beliefs in that statement, and I love that you worked around it and you said, Don't even ask.
They've waited for their coffee, things just took a little bit longer. Just do. Which now takes that next level out of it already.
Mindy Crosato [00:24:17]
Yeah, just build in these ways that your staff can sweetheart. They want to sweetheart. They want to, you know, scooch somebody a little freebie. So just build that into your system that and let them know that you are allowed to give them XYZ. like at our brunch restaurant, we make all these wonderful homemade sauces and we don't charge for them. You know, when you order our moho pork hash, for example, is this like amazing pulled pork hash with pickled jalapenos crispy potatoes and and it comes with this homemade chimichuri. But you know, we have all these other homemade sauces. So that's one of my things that I tell the staff is like you can sweetheart them with sauces. You know, if somebody waited a little extra, you can be like, look, I brought you the whole plethora of our homemade sauces. I thought you would like this or this one is my favorite. I always tell the staff to say, say my favorite or this is from me. It and it makes it feel very personal. Like, I'm I'm hooking you up. I got you.
Yvonne Heimann [00:25:17]
Yeah, there is there is something behind that where it's like, yes, it still feels special when a company as a whole steps up and says, Hey, you waited a little bit extra or whatever it is, here is a little something. And it takes a whole new level when it's coming from the personnel. There is just something about that that makes it just extra special. Which now you put your team into the position of being able to establish themselves, to establish themselves with regulars, to to bring people back in. Because let's be honest, I'd rather go into a local store where I know my peeps and I know the person that I'm coming in to meet rather than the chain down the road of yeah, getting getting my Subway sandwich has three people involved and the end person doesn't even know what I actually ordered. So I love all of these and I love that name too. I love all of those sweetheart moments that you you build into your businesses and just allowing your team to be the best self they can be.
Now, I'm curious though, because you also mentioned in the information you gave us that you're still quite the GM of the businesses, too. You were deeply involved with your PR, with hiring, with training, with all kinds of things, right? Now, me as a German systems person, I'm curious. Is there something you are you would be afraid of if you would step away, if you would be less of the GM. I get the passion. Girl, do I get the passion? There's one thing in my business too where I'm like, I'm never gonna be fully hands-off. I wanna nerd out, I wanna test out, I wanna be in it, I wanna play. And also, what happens when we step away? So I'm curious, playing a little bit devil's advocate here and curious, what have you done or what are you potentially still scared of if you were needing to step away as the GM of your businesses?
Mindy Crosato [00:27:40]
Yeah, it is really hard. I I feel like I've been just slowly and gradually working toward that over the years. I yeah, it's it for me it's not I I notice a lot of people have these very defined, you know, closing of a chapter and opening of a chapter. And for me it's never been like that. It's been just like a tree, just like slowly growing and I've been saying for years like that I want to be the grandma of my business. Like I want to be that next level up. And there's some days that I feel like I am, and then there's some days that I feel like I'm not. And I I have been in it for 16 years. So I do see the I do see that it's slowly moving in that direction. But yeah, I haven't been able to like harness the energy to make like a big movement toward that. And I yeah, I can't like quite put my finger on like why or if it or if it's even like a problem for me. Like, okay, for example, this year at the farmers market, so there's one farmers market that happens on a Tuesday here in Portland at OHSU, the Oregon Health Science University.
And it's like this really small market that I can just work by myself. And that was always like my little safe place, like my little haven where I'm just me selling my pastries. And it reminded me of me 16 years ago when, you know, when it was just me as a one woman show, I didn't have any employees. And so for 16 years, I've been doing this Tuesday market by myself. And it was always my little happy place by myself. And this year, I had this overwhelming feeling of like.
I don't need to be here right now. Like I don't I've done this. I'm good. And I got, you know, a twenty year old college student and I trained her and I put her in there and her sales was just as good as mine. And it was really great to have Tuesdays off. And but that was the first time that I felt that feeling. so this is a relatively new step for me, for sure.
Yvonne Heimann [00:30:05]
If I may, what I'm hearing is your businesses could run on their own. It's not that you have to be there, that you have to do everything, because you've had your grammar moments with your businesses. And I think I think what I'm seeing right now from over here is a person that is just as passionate about what you do as I'm passionate about mine.
And I love that you said, is this really I don't know, I don't remember the exact words you use, but pretty much, is this really my story? Is this really a problem of mine? Do I really have to step away from everything? And that's where love that because you are passionate about what you do. You wouldn't run.
How many hospitality businesses, how many food businesses, if you weren't passionate about it? It's not an easy, an easy industry to be in, right? I love hospitality, I love front of the house, and I do not have enough passion or energy for it anymore to do it. So I know how much goes into it. I think it really just is your passion, it's who you are.
And realizing, hey, I don't need to be at the th Tuesday's farmers market anymore. Cool. We can hand it off. The numbers don't go down. That to me means your businesses are running without you. You just choose to be in it because you love doing it.
Mindy Crosato [00:31:38]
Yeah, yeah. I do definitely, I do definitely like cost benefit things. You know, I'm always calculating and tably tabulating in my brain because our business is so weekend heavy. You know, it's slow on a Monday, Tuesday, and then it ramps up, and then Saturday is like so much busier. You know, so on Saturday we'll do as much sales as the entire week combined. Everyone wants a cake, everyone's partying, everyone's doing their special brunches on Saturdays. So I really, really commonly work Saturday mornings. And it's just because if there's something going wrong, the cost of a mistake is higher. You know, if somebody messes up a batch of cookies on a Monday, I'm like, ouch, you know, fifty dollars lost. Whereas if somebody messes up a batch and we don't have, you know, our brown butter toffee shortbread at all of our markets, I'm like, ouch, that was a five hundred dollar mistake.
Yvonne Heimann [00:32:34]
Yeah, that that adds up easily. And it's like you've also you have the seniority in those moments, right? Your decision, you're figuring it out, you're solving the issue is gonna be faster than somebody that just started. And also, I always love the energy of a Saturday. It's kind of like I don't need a spa day. I just need I just need a nice busy Saturday to get that energy up. my god, yes, I miss hospitality.
Mindy Crosato [00:33:00]
I know, I know. I totally run on that adrenaline. Like it you know, it's I just love it.
Yvonne Heimann [00:33:07]
Yeah, people that have never done hospitality will never understand that level of energy.
We always end up on an action item because I believe these conversations are amazing, but if my audience doesn't take action on it, what are we doing here? So I'm curious if somebody is listening right now that still freezes when something goes wrong, that's like, my god, the world is going under.
We've all been there. what do you think is one thing they can do or one thing they can write on a sticky note to remind themselves, or just just one thing that they can do think or take action on this week or right now to get themselves out of that habit of freezing when something goes wrong.
Mindy Crosato [00:34:00]
I mean, I I just keep coming back to no turning back. You know, just no turning back. Just take what information you can from something that happened, something actionable that you can take and go forward. You know, like I told you with the counterfeit bill, you know, that my action item is not that I'm gonna make all my staff use the little pens on every time somebody pays with a larger bill, my action item is that I need to build more structure in so that these young girls are not at a farmer's market by themselves without some kind of support. So that's my action item that I'm taking and I'm going forward. So no turning back. Forward action.
Yvonne Heimann [00:34:50]
I love that. And just start getting as excited about brand new mistakes as Mindy does. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna start working on the habit of that excitement. So when next time something goes wrong and your chest just tightens up again, remember catching the mistakes just simply means your system is doing the job. You realized it, the system is working.
Now think of that one founder who still checks every single order herself because she's scared something is going to slip and nobody can manage the mistake. Send her this episode. Go have her listen to Mindy. Give her the tools and the tool belt for them to be easier working around mistakes and just no looking back, only moving forward. And I'll see you all in the next episode.
By everybody.
Mindy Crosato [00:35:49]
Thank you.