Yvonne Heimann [00:00:00]:
Have you ever asked yourself what really happens to your relationships, no matter if at work or at home, when you start making big changes in your life? Today we are tackling what unfolds when you decide to level up personally and professionally, but find yourself facing unexpected resistance. First there's the reality of losing friends and family as you grow, then the challenges of shifting company culture and getting your team to buy into values. And the most tricky of all? Figuring out how to align your business relationships without sacrificing your own integrity or burning out.
To help us nagivate these tough waters, we're joined yet again by Matthew Riven and if you've missed the first episode, go back and listen to it. If you're not ready for that, don't worry, our 3 part series also works nicely separately. It does build up on eachother but you also can digest and learn in the different order than just 1, 2 and 3. Matthew Riven is an expert in organizational dynamics and personal development and in this episode, we'll dive into how self work impacts your business, why company culture can make or break your team, and practical ways to build strong trust while driving growth. Expect honest stories, real strategies and clear takeaways for anyone leading real change.
Matthew Riven [00:01:45]:
So we talked about the fact that when you make these changes working with a coach, working with therapist, whatever, you're going to lose family, friends, and others. Some people are going to be happy for you. Some people are going to be like, I'm no longer profiting from your stuff, so I'm out, so. Or you're going to have to kick some people out. And it works both ways. The other thing that happens that I let all my clients know is kind of funny, kind of serious, is that when you're done doing a lot of work on yourself, the one thing that you're going to notice in the rest of the world is, oh, my God, how many other people so desperately need to do their work.
It is, it is one of the things that, that I was not told into the process of. When it comes down to it, how many people. You know, once, to put it bluntly, once you've cleaned up a lot of your own shit, you are hyper aware of how many people around you have so much other shit they need to clean up.
Yvonne Heimann [00:02:42]:
Because it's easier to just point fingers at other people than look at myself.
Matthew Riven [00:02:46]:
So the work that I do that I've been trained on, all the work that I do has been in transactional analysis. The difficulty with transactional analysis is it works, but it's damn painful. It's not the clean up the symptoms, maybe take some meds, clean up the symptoms. I don't want to have to deal with any of the really deep emotional crap that I put up with as a kid. I don't want to bring that stuff back up. So let me just deal with some therapy, talk about it ad nauseam and not really make any changes. If you want to make any changes, you have to clean things up. What I do is an incredibly effective way of helping people clean things up.
My goal with any client is to be done with them. I don't mean just kick them out. But what I mean is I don't want to be having a client for 10 years. I want a client. I want to be able to help them fix what they need to fix, get through what they need to get through, send them on their way with the skills and the tool set to be able to handle anything that comes their way in the future, whether it's personal or business. Yeah. Come back and check in with me every now and then. Oh, yeah, that was.
That's a big thing that just happened for you. Let's schedule a few months and absolutely, let's clean that up too. We didn't see that coming. That's going to happen. But for the most part, I don't want to 10 your client. It's lucrative for other therapists, but they're not doing anything for you.
Yvonne Heimann [00:04:21]:
Now. I wanted to come back around because you, you touched on all three things. You touched on business and home relationships.
Matthew Riven [00:04:29]:
Corporate culture, and your home culture.
Yvonne Heimann [00:04:30]:
Correct. You talked on people in your life. The relationships are going to change or some, if not even a lot, are going to be resistant to that change. And you also talked about the grieving piece. So let's come back first on that whole. Business relationships. Yes, Home relationships. There's also gonna be some things, but I wanted to start really focus on that business relationship and that company culture.
Matthew Riven [00:04:50]:
That Venn diagram of when you have a business relationship or personal relationships, there's a significant amount of overlap between those two circles. So, yeah, we can hit on the relationships.
Yvonne Heimann [00:05:06]:
So why I wanted to bring this up because. And I pride myself on how I run my business and I always love getting the feedback that I am getting. I'm getting the good one and I'm getting the bad one. So in. Oh, my God. 2024, 2025 has been a lot about really clarifying what Ask Yvi stands for, diving into values, diving into company culture, diving into what do we want to stand for? What does that look like? How do we show up. I dabbled a little bit in eos, if you guys haven't heard about it. EOS is, rather than tracking the to dos, you are tracking with your team how they show up in your company values.
That's what triggered this whole thing. So it's just a different way of evaluating your team members. That's one piece of it. There's a lot more to EOS, but that's kind of what triggered my journey in my business of values. Because I also realize that I work best with people that want to have an impact. I'm really in the level which can hurt you is I don't care about money. Yes, I care about money. I care about what money can get me, but I don't care about making money, if that makes any sense.
Yvonne Heimann [00:06:30]:
So where I'm going with all of this is I have had a lot of conversations, especially after I figured out what I want, Ask Yvi to stand for what I want to stand for and that I want to work with entrepreneurs that want to have an impact and change things, how that also funnels into company culture. And I had a lot of situation where I'm like, honestly, I had a couple of my business friends tell me, I should fire my assistant when my business went to shit, I was called out of why do you still have her? And I'm like, because she's literally keeping my business running. I will eat instant ramen before I do not have Luby in the company. And why I bring this up is because she really aligns with my values. Aligns with the company values. She will do the same thing for me. However, also experienced a team member that didn't align with it, that didn't have the communication skills, that doesn't love my podcast.
I love sending long voice messages. I'm an external processor that didn't have the self responsibility, the self accountability, and showed up in that way. And just again, I fell into a situation where I wanted to rescue somebody and trying to fix them and trying to make them work in my company, finally let go of them. And then also see it in combination with people that I work with, where it's like, now, suddenly it goes all the other way around of hearing stories about past clients where it's like, oh, my God, they, they don't give a shit. They have people working in their company and doing things and selling and doing. But not supporting the team. They. It feels like you are not, they're not supporting their team whatsoever.
Yvonne Heimann [00:08:38]:
And where I'm going with this is I really wanted to bring it back into those business relationships and the impact it has because your team might be doing the work, but if the CEO, if the founder is not doing the work now, suddenly you are losing your talent because your values didn't grow with the, with the team values. If the CEO isn't doing the work and it's just quote, about the money and you are not supporting your team, you're not giving them the resources they need, they're going to go somewhere else.
Matthew Riven [00:09:14]:
Well, that's it. Nobody leaves a good job. People leave bad bosses and they leave toxic situations. Very few people leave a good job unless they've done so extraordinarily well. That, and I don't mean financially, but they've done well and they're happy with what's going on and now they want to create it elsewhere. I had a manager who for many years, his goal was always to get his staff to either surpass him or step up to good roles elsewhere. It wasn't like, I need to keep you around forever because you do good work and then they're not supporting you, not helping you grow. There are stories of companies that during the pandemic, refused to fire anyone. In the automotive industry, there was a company, I think was a third tier supplier. They did not have any materials coming in, they did not have any work for their staff whatsoever. And what they ended up doing is they ended up shutting down a production line. And everybody who worked in that production line, they were doing maintenance around the plant. Some of them were actually doing gardening, some, some of them were doing the maintenance of painting the buildings and those kinds of things. And they did it in such a way that everybody got their rate, everybody got their salary. Nobody had their salary cut because they were no longer on the line, but they're actually mowing the property. What do you think happened when the line started up again? Did those employees leave or did they stick around?
Yvonne Heimann [00:10:30]:
They stick around.
Matthew Riven [00:10:32]:
Have they stuck around since?
Yvonne Heimann [00:10:34]:
Because the company did whatever they could in the moment to support them.
Matthew Riven [00:10:37]:
Now it is a difference in company culture. There's, there's an issue a lot in the States where everybody talks about, well, you can't do this or can't do that because you're going to cut jobs, you're going to lose jobs. As an employer, your role is to satisfy your customers in such a way that you make money and you keep your business alive. You're not an employment organization. It's not the works companies that were involved during the Great Depression that kept everybody a job because nobody else gave them jobs. That's not the point of your having a business. You is purely to give people jobs. It is to make money.
That's just the business side of me. But you can do it in a way where people enjoy working for you and they're going to stay and they'll be going to be doing good things for you. It's not about hiring 20 people at $7 an hour. It's about making sure that you can pay people a living wage. And you're paying people, yeah, 30, 40, $50 an hour to provide them with a good living. While they're doing good things for you, you're providing good benefits. You want the people around and you want them to have jobs that are satisfying to them. There is a.
Matthew Riven [00:11:49]:
And I'm blanking. I apologize, I'm blanking on the name. There's a TED talk out there talking about the high functioning SEAL teams in the US Military and the fact that you may have the most spectacular soldier who's able to do the top of the line when it comes to all the physical activities and everything that has to be done to get the job done. But if they are shitty for the team, you don't want to hire them.
Venture capitalists will tell you that if they have a choice between an amazing business plan and an adequate management team or a decent business plan and a phenomenal management team, they're always going to fund the phenomenal management team because they'll be able to handle anything that comes their way and make successful with the most incredible business plan and adequate management team. Venture capital is going to come in. What they're probably going to do is replace this management team.
Matthew Riven [00:12:45]:
And you may lose the brains that have this business plan, but when things start going awry, this management team's not going to be able to handle it. People are the best resource you have and you want to be the best resource you have for those people. And whether that is getting yourself doing the work and figuring out your issues and figuring out your power dynamics and how you relate to yourself, or it's how you relate to yourself and your company. You need to do that to make sure that you're doing the right things for your people. They want to do the right things for you. I'm not coming across as some Pollyanna in terms of yay, I'm happy to work here for free. That's not the way the world works. We just talked about that. You're not here to just hire people
And you're not here hopefully to be making $400,000 as a CEO while you're paying people $795 and they have to get government hands out handouts.
Matthew Riven [00:13:43]:
Yes, it was a political comment, but if you can't pay people a living wage, you don't have a viable business.
Yvonne Heimann [00:13:48]:
No, you don't. You just abuse people.
And I think that's where it comes down to because I don't want to be running my business. Number one in fear.
Matthew Riven [00:13:58]:
Fear meaning your staff will know that and they won't stay.
Yvonne Heimann [00:14:03]:
There is there's multiple levels to this where the comment that comes to mind is higher fast, fire faster. I don't agree with that. I believe to at least give team members a chance. We've talked about communication earlier. Sometimes communication is just offset. Sometimes you just don't link right. And there is just so much, some work involved.
Just because we have one issue doesn't mean I'm going to fire somebody right away. I'm going to give resources to see if we can get where we need to get. And if we don't get there, then I fire. Yes.
Matthew Riven [00:14:41]:
With a lot of my business, with a lot of total individuals and companies. So. And let's be honest, working for companies means you're working for individuals in the company. There is an adage about fail fast. Yeah, get in there. It didn't work. Do something else. Didn't work.
Do something else. Okay, now it's working great. There's a balance between how quickly you fail. You don't want to be one and done. You don't want employees or dating relationship. A partner like, wow, man, they made one mistake and boom, they're out. Miscommunication happens, misunderstandings happen. Work with your people, train your people, help them grow.
And if it's just not working, then there comes a point in time where, yes, you do have to let people go.
But you know, there's, there's the adage of a couple of coaches watching two athletes that they're looking at drafting run the 40 yard dash. One does it with absolutely perfect time. Sorry. One does it with perfect form. One's form is really, really awkward, but they do it at the exact same time. Which one do you hire? You hire the one with lousy form because if you fix the form, they will run faster than the other guy. You hire them. If they're unable to fix their form, they refuse to work with you.
Matthew Riven [00:16:00]:
They, they. I'm not going to change nothing. Coach doesn't know what he's talking about. Yep, you made a mistake. Fire him. Bring in somebody else. Yeah, but if you're able to fix the form, now they're running faster than everybody else. Now you've got somebody who's like, damn.
Thanks, coach. That was amazing. What do you need? I'm going to fight hard for you. Team dynamics is critical. You can bring in one person that.
Yvonne Heimann [00:16:22]:
Can break it all.
Matthew Riven [00:16:24]:
That will, that will break it all. So I've been a part of and I've also led some group.
The group coaching that I do, you get eight people in a room talking about their stuff and working on their things. The dynamic is absolutely amazing. Every time somebody graduates, goes on their way and somebody else comes in, the dynamic of the group changes every single time. And you have to be very careful who you bring in because you can destroy the quality of that group and the work that people are getting done by bringing in just one bad egg. And when you find that happening, there have been clients that you just simply have to get rid of and say, you're not working well for this. I'm happy to work with you individually. I'm going to pull you out of that group situation. And if you don't want to keep working with me.
That's understandable. I can give you a half a dozen names if you'd want to keep working elsewhere.
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:17]:
And I think the same also happens with team members. So to. To follow up on that one too. I believe doing right by my team, they will do right by me.
Matthew Riven [00:17:30]:
You'd hope. Yes.
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:31]:
As I mentioned, it's like in 2024, we got hit hard, really hard. I lost five different contracts literally within a month. It would talk about lesson learned.
Matthew Riven [00:17:45]:
But you kept Luby. So how hard is she going to work to stay with you and support you on this growth path?
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:54]:
Because she knows I have her back and she knows I know she has my back and she knows I have her back.
Matthew Riven [00:18:00]:
Yeah. When you go through hell, you know who your friends are.
Yvonne Heimann [00:18:06]:
And it's. It's. It's a give and take where it's like life is gonna happen, Things are gonna come our way. It's not always gonna be sunshine and roses. And I. I am somebody is. I don't talk around. I'm not like, oh, my God, it's all great.
I'm like, girl, she is hitting the fan. Strap in. We are on for a ride. How do we make this work?
Matthew Riven [00:18:32]:
But when everything is going great, I do hope you do say this is fantastic. This is amazing. I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.
There's some people have a hard time doing that.
Yvonne Heimann [00:18:45]:
It's Luby on. On her own is. Is a complete. I know that the team we are bringing on, we are back in growth phase. So many things are happening behind the scenes. I'm really excited about it. Luby is going to be kind of a North star in the company.
We are friends. We are teammates. She is bossing me around at this point. Yes. The boss always sometimes lost a boss to you. There is a relationship where we've been through so many situations. I don't expect every team member to be that, but we are completely part of pulling in the same direction. We both believe in the goal of Ask Yvi and our mission.
It's. It's a gold mine. She's a gold mine. It's like you literally finding somebody on your team like that is amazing. I'm not expecting everybody that's coming in like that. However, we are now starting to attract talent that is similar. And between Luby and me, we are also finding those data points on how can we determine if the people we are bringing in have a good chance to align with the company culture we have already built. And it is really fun to watch.
Where I know that if ever something happens where it might get dicey. And let's be honest, life is life. I know that she has my back and she knows that I have her back and that I will move mountains and do whatever I can do to support her. And I think that puts a company in a situation of safety.
Matthew Riven [00:20:28]:
Well, it's also the nuance of speaking to all the entrepreneurs and all the small businesses that are listening here is that's what. How many big companies did your entrepreneurs work for at some point in time? Think back to when you were working with the large corporations or the middle corporations or you're working with somebody else. Go back and think about, put yourself back in that office, driving to work every Monday or Tuesday, sitting there in the office, everybody you worked with, how many of those people did you trust? How many of those people did you think, if something happened to me and I needed to, you know, help with work, who's going to stay late to give me a hand? Who's going to be available if I walk out to my car at 5:01 or whatever it was? When you leave the office and the tire's flat or the battery is dead, which one of my co-workers do I know for a fact I'm going to be able to reach out to and say, hey, do you have 10 minutes to help me fix this? Or I know you just drove away. Can you come back and jump my car for me? You don't have. At least for the experiences I've had in a lot of big businesses, they're few and far between. So when you build your own company, what kind of people do you want to surround yourself with? You may have the most amazing, whatever it is that you need, programmer or salesman, saleswoman. You may have the most incredible sales staff. But if they're just complete and total.
Matthew Riven [00:22:00]:
Sorry, if they're complete and total dicks, jerks, pains in the ass to work with, how's that going to work for your team? If you can't trust them to be like, look, I'm sorry, I know it's Thursday, you know, we need to get this proposal out. Can you stick around for an hour or two? As long as they don't have medical appointment and anniversary, as long as you're not screwing them out of some major family engagement or something that's really important to them, which ones are going to be able to stick around? And by the way, if you look at one of them and say, we need to get this proposal out, can you stay a couple hours late. Oh my God, it's my anniversary. I can't. But I'm willing to come in tomorrow at 6am Is that okay? Yes, that's fine. Now you're creating that balance of people that you actually want to work with and a team that's functional and going to help you keep your vision alive of a good company.
Yvonne Heimann [00:22:50]:
And that's where. Yes, I want my team to have certain hard skills ready to go. Right. I don't want to start completely from zero.
But I can teach hard skills, I can't teach soft skills. And that's where we are starting to really pay attention. And it comes. Yes, I can. So I can, I can help with communication and all the things.
All of it. Where. What I mean by specifically on how we are hiring is it's actually coming back to our company values. Self accountability is one of them. If, if a team member is great at their job but consistently points fingers at, it's the client's fault. It's this fault, it's that fault. And it's.
Matthew Riven [00:23:46]:
You mean if they're constantly jumping into the drama triangle to bring it around full circle. If they're constantly playing games. Yeah.
Yvonne Heimann [00:23:50]:
And I will try my best to see if I can change something about it. If I can help with that. And if it's not working, it's simply not working.
Matthew Riven [00:24:07]:
The first question I will end, you know this because you've experienced also drives you nuts. First question I will ask a new client and the first question I will ask every client when they come in for every single session with me. Good to see you. What do you want to change about yourself?
Yvonne Heimann [00:24:29]:
Self accountability.
Matthew Riven [00:24:30]:
It's self accountability but it's. You're the one who has to make the change. You're the one who has to make the power. You're the one who's going to do all the work. I can guide you along the way, but it's all going to be on you. So when you have an employee and they're not willing to change, you can't. That's a can't. It's one of the few.
You cannot change that. So you may be able to look at employee who has a soft skill or even a hard skill issue and say, is this something you're willing to change? And yeah, of course if they're smart, they're going to look at every single boss and be like, yeah, of course I want to change that. See if their actions match the voice.
Yvonne Heimann [00:25:03]:
And I quick want to tap onto that because I had that conversation recently. The same thing happens. Anybody listening? If you are a tool consultant, if you are a ClickUp consultant or any kind of implement on that level, I had a conversation on LinkedIn recently where a ClickUp implementer was like, yeah, I'm starting to learn that I can't just be a done for you. You can't. Even though you implement something for the client, you always need client feedback. With me specifically when we build out ClickUp for a client, it's never the tool people, it's never the tool. You always need clients that have time and will put the time in for you to help them clean up their processes, give you the feedback, work with you. It is never a full on done for you.
It's always a done with you.
Matthew Riven [00:25:59]:
And that's what we talked about before is you need to have clients that care as much if not more than you do. So as a consultant, you need clients to care more about the process than you do.